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Available on Apple and Spotify.
After 13 episodes, our four co-hosts sit down together to reflect on their journey thus far and everything they’ve learned from the climate changemakers who asked them to “Imagine If …”
Victoria Riskin, Janet Kraus, Cleo Carney, and Ally Giebutowski have an honest conversation about the complex feelings that come up when you talk about climate change — especially at this scale. They reveal their past fears and doubts, but they also share how the podcast has given them hope.
“If everyone were given the mic to be able to say what their ‘Imagine If’ was, I can't imagine anyone painting any picture other than an optimistic one,” Janet says. “And if we all had the mic to paint an optimistic future, we would all believe it was possible.”
In This Episode, You’ll Hear:
- Why the guests have eagerly said yes to doing the show
- Our co-hosts’ favorite moments so far
- Gen-Z’s take on climate anxiety
- How climate is becoming a human health issue
- The power of intentional living and small choices
- Our co-hosts’ own “Imagine If” statements
Meet the Hosts:
- Victoria Riskin: I am Victoria. I’m always looking for the best life has to offer despite a turbulent world. I find comfort in the environment and joy in friendships. We have a great team of all ages at Bluedot who inspire me every day as we work together to build community.
- Janet Kraus: I’m Janet, a serial start-up founder and CEO, twin-girl mom, and wife to a fun and funny guy. I am on a mission to build healthier thinking in young people, stop toxic division, spotlight hopeful climate action, and advocate for safe AI.
- Ally Giebutowski: I’m Ally, a freshman at Lafayette College. I believe that a sustainable life is a happier life and that human connection is at the heart of it all. Every day, I try to weave greener, more intentional living into every part of my life, whether that’s in the college classroom, in the kitchen, or through meaningful conversations with others.
- Cleo Carney: I am Cleo, a student at Harvard University, and I strongly believe that conversations, businesses and the private markets can create profound change. I also love to cook nourishing food, work out in nature, and find sustainable swaps for everyday items and habits.
Transcript
Victoria Riskin: Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Bluedot Living podcast. I'm Victoria Riskin, founder of Bluedot Living, and on this podcast, we imagine if people were actually making progress on climate change, because every episode we talk to people who are helping to move the needle.
We've been together and we've done 13 episodes. So, I want you to introduce yourselves. We'll go around because we've been working together for almost six months. We have done 13 podcast episodes. Would you introduce yourselves so everybody knows who's listening who might not have been with us up to now?
Janet Kraus: Sure. I'm Janet Kraus, and I am a multi-time entrepreneur, and I'm a board member at Bluedot Living.
Cleo Carney: Hi guys. I'm Cleo Carney. I am a sophomore at Harvard and I'm a board member for Bluedot Institute.
Ally Giebutowski: Hi everyone. I'm Ally Giebutowski. I'm a freshman at Lafayette College, as well as an intern at Bluedot. I'm also the daughter of Janet Kraus, and a big fan of all three women here.
Victoria Riskin: So I want to start by saying this: We are from different generations. I know. See, but you guys are old souls and I'm just a newbie.
Ally Giebutowski: Young!
Janet Kraus: There you go.
Victoria Riskin: And we've come together in such an amazing way, and I think there's a heart connection that we have. We have this sense of hope about the future and what we can do together, and how we can have conversations and meet really interesting people.
So we took a dive in. I have to ask each of you a tough question. Did you think we'd ever get this together? I mean, did you think we'd get our act together? Because there are four of us and scheduling and very busy lives.
Ally Giebutowski: Scheduling…
Victoria Riskin: Yeah. So I mean, it is not an easy thing. And then bringing in some of the wonderful guests we've had. They have busy schedules. So what’d you think? Did you think…
Cleo Carney: I'll start. Well, I will say I actually did think we'd get it together because I know everyone here and they're very motivated, and the kind of people who make time. But I remember Ally and I talking. I think it was after our Madame Gandhi interview. And we said we didn't realize how big of a thing this would be, how professional it would be. We didn't quite know what we were getting ourselves into when we agreed to it. But we couldn't be happier and more pleased and proud of how it's turned out so far.
Janet Kraus: I think from the very beginning when Victoria and I were talking about this, it just felt so important that it be multi-generational because, honestly, this is a problem that our generations have created and yours are going to need to solve. But like in anything big, you sort of have to do it together. We are bringing, I think, maybe more experience in the world about what's gone on to date, and you guys are bringing the fresh view and the hope and the optimism that everyone needs to feel like things are actually changing.
Victoria Riskin: This is maybe a little tougher question because it's easy to wake up in the morning, see what's going on in the world, and feel a little bit gloomy and worried and anxious. Do you think we adequately deal with that feeling? All of us are optimists by nature. We're like: “If there's a problem, let's figure out how to solve it.”
Cleo Carney: Like we're all somewhat smiling right now — like a light smile.
Victoria Riskin: We have a light smile and I think that's our nature, but it isn't always easy to feel that way, is it?
Janet Kraus: I guess the thing that has been most buffering for me is that literally everybody we reach out to, to ask if they want to do this with us, it just has been “yes” after “yes” after “yes.” And that gives me this sense of like, people just want to get the word out about whatever it is they're doing that is moving the ball forward. The people that are out there working on climate innovation, they're also optimists. And so to me, whenever I know I have a podcast on the agenda, I'm like, “This is going to be a good day. This is going to be a good day.”
Victoria Riskin: You know, I feel that way too, Janet. I get really excited. Who am I going to talk to? Well, I know who I'm going to talk to, but what are we going to probe together? What am I going to learn? What am I going to feel? How am I going to feel like I'm not alone? I feel that way with you guys.
Cleo Carney: I feel like I also have really enjoyed so many of the episodes; there hasn't been an episode where I haven't left feeling more inspired. And I think it's definitely something I've struggled with a bit coming to college. Coming from quite an environmentally conscious household and coming to America, which I love, but just seeing that not everyone recycles, not everyone does the things that I thought were the absolute bare minimum, which was a biased perspective for sure.
I remember when I first came here, I was a little bit disenfranchised, and I kind of thought, “You know, my generation's meant to be the one that's pioneering, but a lot of my friends really just don't seem to care.” And so now I find that episodes really help to keep me motivated. And I love how we've interviewed people in every different space, from nuclear fusion technology, to plastic packaging, to underwear, to food, to music. Knowing how there is this whole world, this whole ecosystem.
Victoria Riskin: Do you think it's that your friends don't care, or do you think they just don't know what to do?
Ally Giebutowski: I can take this to start. I think that the biggest factor of it is that kids my age are scared, whether they admit it or they don't. Whether they are really into the climate movement and want to create action, or whether they don't. I think in both cases they're scared to admit to themselves that this is something that's real. They'd rather just close their eyes to it and think to themselves, “Someone else has a handle on that.” I've done it before.
I'm realizing through this podcast that the smallest of actions are actually what fuel you and make you feel better. So rather than hiding from it, once you dive into it, whether it's podcasts, whether it's small, whether it's something big, that inherently makes you feel better. I've experienced that. And it's been really fun to do it with Cleo as well, because Cleo reminds me that I'm not alone in caring so much about this. And I know there are more people; they are just a little scared. But add on, Cleo.
Cleo Carney: I'd say it's a mix. I think to some degree people are scared by the magnitude of the issue. I myself have felt this. It's so much easier to just turn a blind eye and go, “If I don't think about it, I don't have to feel that fear. This is going to be someone else's problem, someone's going to fix it.” So I would say it's partially that. I think it's partially that it doesn't even occur to them. I think it's partially a cultural thing.
I've seen when I'm in Europe, it seems to be like the fundamentals of sustainability, partially because of the choice architecture and top-down government approaches to just small things in packaging and things of that sort, there's a bit more regulation there. It means it's kind of more naturalized. This issue is very politicized in the States for better or for worse. And we try to take an obviously apolitical approach to it because it is fundamental to humanity.
So I would say I think some people don't know and don't think about it. I think some people are afraid and don't want to think about it. I think there are people who really do care and are pushing the needle forward, and I think some people within this fear realm are very disenfranchised. They say to me, “You know, Taylor Swift flies her private jet around everywhere. Why does it matter if I have a steak tonight?” Which I totally get. There's also this relatively unique American perspective of individual liberty: You have your rights and you should exercise them. It's not just American, but I have noticed a cultural shift coming here. So I'd say it's a series of factors, and it really depends on the person, but it's been interesting for me at least personally to tackle.
Victoria Riskin: Yeah. Good answer. Janet, do you identify with that?
Janet Kraus: I do. It's really interesting. Even I get this. I think people are afraid. I think there are people who don't know what to do. What I feel is happening right now, and maybe it's because we're doing this and so therefore I'm so steeped in it, that I feel a difference, and it's not as big as I perceive. But even the documentary Plastic Detox, people are talking about that and it's having a moment. We've been hearing these things for a long time, and suddenly it's beginning to happen.
I think we're switching from it being a planetary sustainability issue to a human health issue, and people are feeling that and going, “Oh, wait a second. Oh my God, these things are married.” Like we actually have to be in symbiosis with the planet for us to be healthy, and these things that are hurting the planet are actually hurting us. Like finding out that plastics are getting across the blood-brain barrier. You're like, “Oh, OK. So that's a real deal.” I think we've started to marry and think more about the fact that living a healthier life and living a more sustainable life are really almost opposite sides of the same coin. I think people are beginning to feel that and understand that viscerally.
Ally Giebutowski: I see that too, Mom. Just in the conversation that we had at Easter dinner with our whole family. We were coming at the problem in more of a human health situation than “plastics are polluting our earth” because it's more connected to us. And I think because the issue is becoming more connected to us, it's connecting humans to each other. That was an interesting conversation to have because my 10-year-old and 7-year-old cousins were in on that conversation and asking their mom, “Hey Mom, do we have plastic in our house? Can we not have plastic in our house?”
Janet Kraus: Right. We actually have a nephew who gets a little anxious about things, and so you could literally see him and his mom going, “Nope, we got rid of that. Nope, we got rid of that. Nope, we got rid of that.”
Ally Giebutowski: But that was not sustainability first, necessarily, for him. Because I don't think he even understands that yet. That was: “Am I going to be OK? Am I safe? Am I living the best life I can?” Which is what sustainability is.
Victoria Riskin: So it was making the bridge between sustainability and our own well being, our physical health and our mental well being. Once that connection gets made, the actions are much easier. While we all want to be doing things that are self-sacrificing for the good of the universe and the planet…
Janet Kraus: Well, actually no, not everybody does. Some people do, whereas everybody wants to be in pursuit of their own health.
Victoria Riskin: That’s right. They want to be in pursuit of their own health and well being. Or if they want to save money, maybe they will buy an electric car so they don't have to buy gas right now. So let's be honest, if we're going to be on this mission, some of it has to be selfish.
Ally Giebutowski: And that's OK.
Cleo Carney: I think it's great to actually lean into selfishness. I think we shouldn't deny the fact that humans are intrinsically selfish because it's biologically advantageous, and therefore use selfishness for good.
Janet Kraus: Right, exactly. Survival is effective altruism. And framing the problem that way is going to get a lot more people to pay attention and move more quickly. I mean, I think just finding out that fertility in men has dropped dramatically and that most couples are probably going to have to face some form of fertility treatment by 2040 — I mean, that's got people screeching to a stop in their tracks.
Cleo Carney: It might be zero by 2050.
Janet Kraus: Right, right. That’s exactly right. And that makes people go…
Ally Giebutowski: And the birth rate is already causing problems to start.
Victoria Riskin: And I would jump in here and say what we learned from seeing the entire film — and I did a good interview with the wonderful director, I so loved that opportunity — was that by removing the plastic, sperm counts went up, or there was a healthier endocrine system; the endocrine system began to restore itself. So this is exciting. And I actually did an interview with one of the couples in the study, and Darby, who is the wife, is so knowledgeable. She's a super expert. This has really become a mission for her. So I feel like we're part of a really cool family of people. I wanted to ask you guys: What are some of the ones that stand out to you? What are the takeaways? You spent time there, and there are always those little gems that pop out that stay with you. So just free flow it.
Ally Giebutowski: Yeah, I'd love to start. This one's been on my mind since I found out that we were going to have this conversation. I think one of the biggest things from all of our podcasts is the idea of living intentionally. I find myself in days where I have to remind myself to live intentionally. And whether that's fueled by my desire to be sustainable or not, I think that every guest we've had on our podcast really keeps that at the forefront of their values. I saw it with Liz Carter in the Unwilted podcast. I saw that with Madame Gandhi. Both of those women talked about how they work for being intentional, and that was one of the most motivating factors to me. I think that everyone can agree upon that. And to have something that everyone agrees upon is what moves forward change.
Victoria Riskin: Living intentionally. Yeah.
Janet Kraus: You know, when I first heard the word “conscious consumerism,” I thought it was a little trite. But picking up on what you said, Ally, so many people, when we ask them “Imagine if,” every one of them answers something about just being more aware of your choices and thinking a little bit more about what you're doing. Both around buying something, or just enjoying the moment or staying present. Because when we do that, then we are aiming for something more positive than just floating through it and doing things without care.
I also think about the number of little choices that everybody brings up. Ally, back to your point I am literally coming up with another little thing I could do that I hadn't thought of. For example, we were talking to the guy from Notpla, the seaweed packaging guy. And at some level you're like, “Well, I don't know if I can have any impact on getting seaweed packaging into stores.” And he's like, “Oh, yes you can. Like when you go to the customer service button and say, ‘I'd like to see packaging made by seaweed.'” I was like, “Of course I can do that! Why couldn't I do that?” That is so simple. But again, that's being intentional. Like I have agency. It feels good.
Cleo Carney: I was very inspired by the Notpla founder; the company just seemed to happen by happenstance. He was experimenting in a university kitchen. I've found with founders, because I'm particularly interested in the startup space, I love hearing the stories of how these things often happen just through serendipity and chance. But then my favorite thing about the actual consumer products that we've gotten to learn about is how typically they're just better products. This is my consistent thing when people talk about the trade-offs you're making for environmental products. Absolutely, sometimes they are more expensive and that should be recognized, but often the products are just so much better in their efficiency and everything they do. So I'd say those are things that have stuck with me. And that was also something that came up today in our conversation that will be launched soon with Stacy, who founded a sustainable clothing brand.
Ally Giebutowski: I love that point. And to just give an example of somewhere where I saw that: in the Unwilted podcast, we were thinking about the business model of flowers and how it’s actually not that great. There's the packaging, there's the bringing it to the person, and then once the person has the product, it dies in like three days. With a paper flower, you're able to keep that forever. And so that was also cool that the product was like an even better idea than what it had started as.
Victoria Riskin: You did that interview and I watched it. I usually go to the market, I get my bunch of roses, and I bring them home. I look at those roses so differently and kind of with disappointment, I must say, knowing how far they came, how much chemical stuff is used to preserve them, and how much energy gets used. I was lucky to go to a local farm where they're growing tulips. The most beautiful tulips; nothing you can get in the store.
Cleo Carney: Was that the farm we went to, Victoria, a couple years ago?
Victoria Riskin: This is a new farm called Beetlebung Farm. Y'all have to come on down and visit Beetlebung.
Ally Giebutowski: Beetlebung Farm.
Victoria Riskin: The point really is, I'm totally fine with getting some of those wonderful Unwilted flowers, but I also know that if you have a garden or if you have a farm near you, that's a different matter. And those are choices.
So we covered a lot of topics in the podcast. There were some that were more about creativity, some more about big, technologically complex ideas, whether it was taking seaweed and turning it into plastic, which was an amazing company, or the fusion technology. And then, building community. I think that's the other theme that comes through all of this.
Some of the “Imagine Ifs” were pretty wonderful at the very end of each podcast. I was thinking about community building, and I was thinking about Eric Garcetti, who had been the former mayor of Los Angeles and also managed to make it possible for the Olympics to come there in 2028. He was the ambassador to India. But he built communities around the world by creating something called Climate Mayors.
Cleo Carney: Yeah, that was interesting.
Victoria Riskin: Wasn't that interesting? Talk a little bit, Cleo, what was your takeaway from Eric?
Cleo Carney: Well, I think when he was talking about Climate Mayors, he was talking about how sometimes mayors are people with more unique positions of power than everyday people, but sometimes you don't need the very person at the top. The Climate Mayors came after the U.S. originally pulled away from the Paris Agreement. And so it was people rising up across the world and saying, “No, this is still something we care about.” And obviously climate action has to be unilateral; that's one of the reasons it's so hard. So I liked that. And then I liked when he was talking about exhaust engines from the car when you're turning and just how simple architectural designs and the way cities are…
Janet Kraus: Yeah, he was talking about the rotary. Remember how getting a rotary built locally is one of the highest impact things you can do to lower emissions? Because it's when you start the car or stop the car. And I was like, “Everybody wants to build a rotary. Nobody has any politics around a rotary.”
Cleo Carney: Yeah. And also, it's another example of the things we're talking about where climate relates to health. I'm doing a minor in global health and public policy, so I'm very interested in health. The cardiovascular impact of pollution is really bad. And so that's another example where it's better for us, and don't we all want to live longer and healthier?
Janet Kraus: He said potholes aren't Democratic or Republican.
Ally Giebutowski: That was so great.
Victoria Riskin: Yeah. And we live in such a divided country, as if these challenges are real or not real depending on what side of the political aisle you're on. But we all know what the challenges are in our communities and can do something about it. I thought it was lovely at the end of his episode, when asked what his “Imagine If” might be, he said, “I just wish everybody could find moments of joy in their lives.”
Eric Garcetti (Clip): It's a small “Imagine If.” Imagine if you found joy in every day and felt your power every day. We're living through a moment with so little joy, where people feel powerless. Do something and smile at something. And today you will feel that joy and power. If everybody did that, we would feel collectively in a very different place and our ambition would, I think, soar.
Janet Kraus: That's that intentionality. We had that today with the woman who makes non-plastic underwear. Her “Imagine If” is: What if everyone had a garden?
Stacy Grace (Clip): Imagine if everyone had a garden. I think a garden is such a beautiful thing to tend to and grow something of your very own, whether it's vegetables, fruits, or flowers. I think it brings joy into your life when you see something grow that you've worked on. Obviously you can put compost in it. So there's a personal tie and personal motivation why I want people to have their own garden. Big or small it could be something on a shelf, an herb garden, or a flowerbed. The act of growing something, I think, helps us slow down and return to Earth and bring something healthy into our daily lives. So I think imagine if everyone could take the time and tend to a garden, I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Janet Kraus: It was just so simple.
Victoria Riskin: I can't wait. My garden is waiting to be ginned up. The one that actually surprised me was the “Imagine If” from Carolyn Saunders, whose moniker is Pale Blue Tarts. She has a wonderful Substack and she's actually marvelous. She's a wonderful cook who focuses on dessert. The challenge for me was to understand how desserts could be made with things that were not bad for you, like sugar and bad wheat and all that sort of thing. She's such an expert in this. So her wish was that everybody at least a couple of days a week would eat beans.
Caroline Saunders (Clip): Imagine if every day of the week, everybody ate some amount of a pulse. I want us to imagine this because prices are really high right now, and beans are inexpensive, healthy protein. If we subbed just a little bit of red meat for delicious burrito bowls or dal, just a little bit a day, it would be this awesome climate action that we could take individually. And then all the stats show it is so good for our health to eat more pulses. So that's my big imagination. I'm manifesting it for myself. I hope others will join.
Victoria Riskin: I loved her answer. She's the most effervescent character. Maybe Cleo, you know — she said, “I wish people would eat more pulse.” What are pulses? I've never heard that.
Cleo Carney: Pulses is the family of beans and lentils and different things. It's like grouping.
Janet Kraus: I thought those were legumes. It's a pulse, huh?
Cleo Carney: Pulses as well.
Victoria Riskin: What we're trying to do here — and the stories are not fictional, they're real — is tell stories about real people from all different walks of life doing really interesting things and caring a lot. Adam Leipzig, who was our first guest, was the producer of March of the Penguins. Every film he's made, I think he's tried to make something that would resonate with people and be meaningful. He also did Plastic Ocean, which was a huge success and changed laws around the world. So his “Imagine If” was: “I wish everybody would be able to find their true creative self.”
Adam Leipzig (Clip): Imagine if creative people everywhere had the ecosystem that they needed to make their best work. And what would that mean and what would be shared?
Ally Giebutowski: He was such a well-spoken man, and very talented at what he did. I loved that his “Imagine If” could resonate with so many people, just like his work did. And I think it's so easy to look at a documentary and be like, “I'd rather be watching trash drama TV,” but that's not what's going to sit with you for longer. I loved that watching his films, hearing about his films, talking to him about them, you could feel that this is something that sustains you. Like the energy that you come out of watching something like that, it fuels you to move forward. And I think that's kind of another theme that we've focused on.
Victoria Riskin: So I think we are probably coming to the close of our wonderful conversation together. I love being with you. We have to get together again. What I take away is the gift of friendship with all of you, which is very powerful. I think we have some wonderful podcasts lined up. Does anybody have one that they want to throw out there that we booked?
Janet Kraus: Well, coming up on our calendar: One is the founder and CEO of Epic Water filters. He literally started a company out of his garage because they were living in Asia and they couldn't find clean drinking water. Now it filters out the PFAS and all that stuff. I can't wait to hear how he got it off the ground. And then we have another one, which is a company called Ettitude, which makes bamboo sheets. They are luxurious and delicious, so I think that one will be really fun.
Cleo Carney: Victoria and I are going to be interviewing Marco, who's the chef and founder of Brodo, which makes delicious bone broth.
Ally Giebutowski: Oh, I'm excited for that.
Victoria Riskin: He has a restaurant in New York, I think. Hearth.
Ally Giebutowski: We should all go.
Janet Kraus: Actually, I'm using Brodo tonight. I have leftover asparagus that I'm throwing into the blender with some Brodo to make an asparagus soup.
Ally Giebutowski: You love your soups, Mom.
Victoria Riskin: There you go. Oh, you're a woman after my own heart.
Janet Kraus: What do we call that at Bluedot? We call that a “Riff-able.” A Riff-able is when you open up your refrigerator and you go, “How can I riff something together tonight?”
Ally Giebutowski: Oh, you have so many Riff-ables, Mom.
Janet Kraus: And they're delicious.
Victoria Riskin: And I am hoping to do a few “Short-casts” with Carolyn Saunders so I can learn more about beans and pulses and Riff-able bowls, but just food in general. I get very excited talking about food.
Janet Kraus: We eat it every day, and if you can make a change in your life just by what you eat every day, it's there for the picking.
Victoria Riskin: It's there for the picking. There are so many wonderful regenerative farmers out there and people bringing food to our tables if we want good food. So I think that's a wrap for today.
Ally Giebutowski: Before we go, can we do one more thing perhaps? I was thinking, because we have this opportunity and the four of us are here together, I wanted to maybe end this podcast with the four of us just giving a brief “Imagine If” of our own and talk about what we carry at the forefront of our minds. I didn't even think about it until we ended. But I thought it would be cool to see what you guys think and connect it back to the values of Bluedot.
Victoria Riskin: Good idea.
Ally Giebutowski: I can start. Imagine if we all were able to be fueled by conversations like these and lean into the discomfort and get excited to talk to people that we might disagree with or agree with, and see what comes out on the other side of that. Imagine if we lived in a world that valued that as much as the four of us do.
Cleo Carney: I would say imagine if we all believed we could make change in this world — believe we could make the change that we want to see.
Victoria Riskin: Well, I guess I imagine if everyone got on a little train going in the same direction of taking care of each other, healing themselves and the world around them, realizing that it's a lot simpler than they think. Being able to insulate ourselves from the chaos and the noise and the intoxication of what comes into our streaming world, and take some deep breaths and just love each other. I mean, heart to heart, wish everyone happiness and goodwill. It sounds a little bit idealistic because it is, but nonetheless, I get to imagine it.
Janet Kraus: If everyone were given the mic to be able to say what their “Imagine If” was, I can't imagine anyone painting any picture other than an optimistic one. And if we all had the mic to paint an optimistic future, we would all believe it was possible. We are being asked every day to be negative. What would it look like if everyone were being given the opportunity to say something positive? I think that would shapeshift a lot of things. I imagine us walking around the world with a mic going, “You want to tell me what you imagine? What does your future look like?”
Ally Giebutowski: We should do that. That would be so cool.
Victoria Riskin: All right, let's go on the road, you guys. Deal. All right. Thank you so much. Love you all and take care.
Victoria Riskin:Thank you for joining us on Imagine If from Bluedot Living. If you want to explore our recipes, products for your home and lifestyle, and read interesting stories, you can find us at bluedotliving.com. And for daily inspiration, you can follow us at Bluedot Living on Instagram. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it and please add your thoughts in the comments on YouTube. I’m Victoria Riskin, and we’ll be back next week with more stories from great people doing amazing things in their little corner of the planet.
