Note that if you purchase something via one of our links, including Amazon, we may earn a small commission.
A conversation with Marianna Sachse, the founder of Jackalo.
Available on Apple and Spotify.
Imagine if your kids’ clothes could actually keep up with all the tumbles and messes of childhood play …
After Marianna Sachse’s son came home from school with his pants shredded at the knee, she knew the children’s clothing industry had stopped designing for durability. That’s why she founded Jackalo, America's first circular children’s clothing brand.
By designing collections made with reclaimed, durable materials, Marianna hopes to show parents that “sustainable” doesn't have to mean “expensive” — especially when you consider cost-per-wear over price tags.
In this episode, Janet Kraus sits down with Marianna to learn more about Jackalo and their new collection built entirely from reclaimed denim. Along the way, Marianna shares her four-question framework for smarter buying and tips for making your clothes last.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Why children's clothing stopped being built to last.
- A four-question framework for smarter buying: Do I need this? Can I get it secondhand? Does it align with my values? How do I make it last?
- The real math behind cost-per-wear, and why a $100 pair of jeans can outlast — and out-value — a $40 pair.
- What materials to look for in kids’ clothes.
- Why air-drying instead of machine-drying is the single biggest thing you can do to extend a garment's life.
- About Broken In, Jackalo's new collection made entirely from reclaimed B-grade denim.
- Marianna’s closing reflection on the Iroquois principle of deciding with seven generations in mind.
About Marianna Sachse
Marianna Sachse is the founder and CEO of Jackalo, a line of long-lasting, sustainably and ethically made clothes for active kids that accepts used garments back for resale or responsible recycling. Before starting Jackalo, she spent two decades in public health, working with organizations such as the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Aspen Institute. She started Jackalo after her own son’s pants failed her within weeks of a new school year, and the company has since gone through the Techstars Accelerator.
Meet the Host:
Janet Kraus: I’m Janet, a serial start-up founder and CEO, twin-girl mom, and wife to a fun and funny guy. I am on a mission to build healthier thinking in young people, stop toxic division, spotlight hopeful climate action, and advocate for safe AI.
Transcript
Janet Kraus: Hello, and welcome back to Bluedot Living's podcast, where we imagine if innovators and change makers might actually be making progress toward a healthier and more sustainable world, because the good news is, they are. Today's guest started with something every parent has experienced.
You buy your kid a brand-new pair of pants, and in about a week or maybe two, the knees are starting to be worn, they're stained, they shrank after the first washing. And somehow the answer seems to be, “Oh, well, that's just the way it goes with kids' clothes these days.” But what if the problem isn't our kids?
What if they aren't wearing their clothes too hard? What if the problem is that we just quietly accepted over time that kids' clothing is no longer designed to last? And what if the choices we're making in our laundry room are adding to the problem? Today's guest, Marianna Sachse, founder of Jackalow, started asking questions that led her somewhere unexpected.
Why does children's clothing fail so quickly? Why do we throw away so much fabric in the process of making clothes? Why do we think sustainable has to mean more expensive? And what if the answer wasn't just accepting that this is the way the world is, but instead starting to design a better system?
Marianna, welcome to Imagine If.
Marianna Sachse: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Janet Kraus: So take me back to the moment that happens for all of us. You buy clothes for your son or your daughter, and you send them to school. What happened in that moment for you that made you think, you know, something is just fundamentally broken here?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, I mean, it really was the first time that I sent him off to school, and we hadn't even had a pair of pants for a month, and they were shredded at the knees. Like, truly, truly shredded at the knees. And I thought that the pants that I'd purchased were at least good enough quality, and I was so disappointed to see that they just weren't.
They couldn't hold up to an active kid. And my kid was active, but not, you know, outrageously so. This was a kid doing normal kid things. And I really felt like it was a problem that I would have to say, “Can you be less rough on your clothes? Can you change your behavior so that the clothes would last longer?”
That didn't seem like an appropriate solution, I mean, a 5-year-old should be doing 5-year-old things. Like, that's going to include climbing trees and maybe sliding on your knees, and we should reasonably expect that our kids' clothes last at least a month. And so I could start to see that we really had a problem.
And this was after this phase of getting all of these wonderful hand-me-downs. So we got tons of hand-me-downs when my kid was a baby and into the early toddler years, but we stopped getting them when he was about four years old. And so this was the first time I was buying the clothes and seeing the real problem.
And I started to realize, oh, we're not getting hand-me-downs because lots of kids are doing this. Our sources for clothes, their kids are ruining pants, and nothing is surviving to make it to the hand-me-down phase. So I started looking for better quality pants. I started looking for the pants with reinforced knees, and it still kept happening.
And then what I'm seeing is, OK, so these pants are polycotton blends, you know, or they have polyester in the lining. None of this can be recycled. You know? None of this can be donated. We are ending up with a literal pile of trash, and I didn't like being a contributor to that pile of trash. And the more I dug into it and the more I learned about it, the more I felt like we needed better solutions, and that the large fashion companies out there had no incentive to create better solutions.
And who better to be stepping in to figure out how to change the system than a parent that has faced this problem? And so I decided to do it myself.
Janet Kraus: To your perspective, was it always planned obsolescence for clothing, or was there a change somewhere in the system? Do you remember Sears Toughskins? Their whole marketing was like, “These will last forever.” Where did that shift happen? Do you have any historical reference to help us? Because I don't think this was always the case, or was it?
Marianna Sachse: No, I don't think it was always the case. I mean, I think that as fast fashion rose for adults, it rose for kids, too. And we started to get into this mindset that our kids are going to ruin the garments anyways, so why would we spend a lot of money on them? Or, you know, the resale systems aren't simple and effective.
I don't have time for resale. Why would I worry about, oh, can I get some of my money back on this? So even families with means to spend on items that are higher quality will often choose not to because they're just in this general throwaway mindset.
Janet Kraus: You said that before you ask the question, what should I buy, you ask the following three questions.
Marianna Sachse: So do I need this? Can I get it secondhand? If I can't get it secondhand, does the company align with my values? Then how do I make it last? Yeah, so that's the kind of process that we walk through. And so the first one is really starting with a little bit of time, and that's letting yourself marinate on the question of do I really need this?
So stepping away from the idea of impulse purchases. And while we can all say online shopping behavior is so bad, it is, and the fact that we don't have to have that extra work of going to a physical store can sometimes mean that you are more able to say, “I'm just going to let it wait a little bit. I'm going to put it in my shopping cart and then come back to it later,” that kind of thing.
I'll give you an example: My older son needs some new shorts. He has a certain kind of shorts that he really likes. First question: Do I really need this? And so then the way you assess whether you really need it is, have you actually gone through your clothes recently? Are there other shorts that you have that you're not wearing? If you're not wearing them, why aren't you wearing them? Are they too small? Are they uncomfortable? Do we need to do a general closet clean-out?
Then you kind of let them sit on that for a little bit and then say, “All right, so you've now given yourself the luxury of time. You've done your little bit of homework to see if you actually need it, and you've decided you do actually need it. OK. So we're going to start by looking online to see if we can find it secondhand.”
We do start it really young. And my parents did this with me. The way they did it was different, though, because, you know, times are different. But when I wanted something as a kid and I'd say, “Mom, I want this thing,” you know? When I was a kid, American Girl dolls were just coming up, and it was the big thing that everybody wanted the American Girl dolls, and they had the historic outfits that you would see? So I just loved this pair of boots, and I was like, “I want these boots.”
The typical response from my parents to any request like this was, “Put it on your wish list.” That is the ultimate gift of time. So whether that's your birthday or a gifting holiday like Christmas or Hanukkah or whatever it is, put it on your wish list. And so when you, as a child, have your wish list, that is the gift of time and encourages children to be thoughtful because you can then say a few weeks before the gifting event, “Do you have your wish list? Why don't you go over it and make sure that you actually want the things that are on there? Because time has passed, and maybe your tastes are different. Maybe you realize there's something else that's more important to you.” And so that process of creating a wish list is something you can do with really tiny children.
I mean, that's to sit on Santa Claus's lap, and what do you want for Christmas? That's that moment where we want you to actually be thoughtful and reflective of the thing that you want. And sometimes going through that, even just that process of looking through what did you put on your wish list?
“OK, so you put a Lego set on your wish list. You've got a lot of Lego sets. Are there any that you're done with that we can pass on?” Now it's time to think it through, you don't have any space for more Lego sets. What are we going to do about this? How are we going to solve this? And it's engaging your children in that problem-solving behavior before you are doing anything related to the actual purchasing.
And so you do this with clothes. You do this with toys. And it is just a really good way to start encouraging kids to be conscious consumers before they even have control over their own money. And then you can also use the gift-giving occasions, the time before that to say, “Hey, we know you're going to get a bunch of gifts here,” you know?
“So whether it's us as parents giving you gifts, or a birthday party, or grandparents, whomever, there are going to be more things coming into the house. Let's think about what we are doing with the things you already have.” So, you know, you would typically do a spring cleaning of clothes and things like that at the change of the season or whenever it is, but any gifting occasion is an opportunity to engage a child in that as well. As parents, we all have that experience of, oh my God, we start going through the toys, and they actually are finding something that they haven't played with in three years and now saying that they love it and they won't get rid of it.
It's hard. I fully admit that I have given my children's toys away without their consent.
Janet Kraus: Before they rediscover it.
Marianna Sachse: Before they rediscover it. You just have to do—
Janet Kraus: Yeah. So having to— Yeah.
Marianna Sachse: Yeah.
Janet Kraus: Certainly with a toy, you can say the wish list. Clothing, what I'm hearing you say, is that's the conditioning of time, and then when they're that early, that young, they're not spending as much time on their clothes, per se, you are.
But then as that shifts from you having full control to them being a part of it, how does that… Is it just that because you've created this space between I want, I need, and the delivery that they're expecting with every purchase? Is that how it translates from toys to clothing?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a difference with clothing in that there's more things that are actual needs. So, “Mom, my socks have holes in them.” OK, that's an actual need. You know, “I can't fit into my underwear, I outgrew my pants.” Those are actual needs. So there you can be a little bit more judicious with your choices of imposing a time, Imposing a pause, you know? So I don't make my children pause when they're saying, “I need more underwear.”
So I definitely encourage parents to sit down with their kids, literally engage your kids in this process from a very young age. This should not be an activity that parents are doing without their children after they’re school age. I'm not saying your preschooler needs to be involved, but a school-aged kid, absolutely.
We're gonna sit down together, and maybe it's just that we're tackling one drawer. “All right. Today, we're just gonna do the socks, underwear, and pajamas. We're gonna clear that all out, see what you need.” And then, if you have energy, then you can continue on. And then you go off and go play.
Janet Kraus: All right, so we now have this sort of visualization or this sort of clarity on how we answer the first question. Now move me to: Can we get it secondhand? Talk about that.
Marianna Sachse: Yeah. So I think it's really important to start engaging kids in the process of looking for things secondhand. So skip the socks and underwear.
Janet Kraus: Of course.
Marianna Sachse: But when they need T-shirts, shorts, whatever it is, start to engage them in how we look for these things secondhand, whether it's the clothing swap that you do, or you've got the friend who has the hand-me-downs.
I'll shout out my own company, Jackalo. We sell our clothes secondhand on our website. So you see more and more brands having their own branded secondhand experience. I think the first thing is check with the brands you already love. Check with the brands you know that are kind of going toward the next question, like creating with the values in mind that you care about, and start with those places.
Do they operate their own secondhand marketplace or their secondhand section on their website? See if you can get anything that you need in those places. Then from there, expand to online marketplaces, whether it's Facebook Marketplace, Poshmark, or ThredUp. There are lots of them online.
And so you always wanna start with the brands you know and love, because then at least you have a sense of, all right, I know the quality is gonna be what I want it to be.
I know it's gonna hold up, look great after several washes. And see if you can find what you like there.
Janet Kraus: I've seen these popping up more recently and it's kinda cool, I kinda love it, these sort of town swaps. Like they'll designate a day in a church parking lot or the community center and say, “Bring your clothes, we have the racks. Come do swaps.” Is that anything you've seen or participated in?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, absolutely. And I've actually organized some for kids, and I've encouraged other elements of the community to do the same thing specifically for kids. Because with the kids, I mean, number one, you're going to see a ton of stuff for kids under four. So starting there, that's where you'll see a lot, and you really can clean up with that age range.
Oftentimes when we think of sustainability, we think of just what the materials are made from, which is incredibly important. But it is also about: Are they designing a product for life? And when brands are designing a product for life, that is something that's incredibly sustainable. And so, we want to see more people purchase with a perspective of, “I'm buying this for life,” and more brands design with that perspective.
And then of course, when it comes to picking brands and aligning those brands with your values, I'm always encouraging people to look at what are the materials they're using, the health of those materials for your body and for the planet. How are they treating their workers? Are they paying them by the piece, which means that they're going to be pushed into overproduction, or are they paying them by the hour? That's a very, very basic thing that anybody can find out. And then, what are the kind of bigger things that they align with? And so sometimes it's like, do you feel like they're just pushing you to buy more, and more, and more, or are they pushing you to come back and repair the item with us?
Or do they have a buyback program, which means they're encouraging you to pass it on to the next person? All of these things are ways that you can look at whether a brand aligns with your values, and you can keep that perspective broad. I mean, maybe your value is just, “Is this a good value?”
And that's fine. But my pushback on that is: Are you defining value by cheap, or are you defining value by lasting? Because when you go and buy something that is cheap, it seems like a good value until it falls apart and you've replaced it three times. And the company that is making a product that is more well-made, and perhaps more expensive, in the long run may end up cheaper because they've actually designed it to last.
And so I just encourage people to think of value in that lasting way versus just the dollar amount.
Janet Kraus: I think it's really important. I think as soon as you start to think about cost per wear, it changes your mindset because it really is, when it comes down to it, how long that item lives in your closet and how many times you can use it — then you're not putting out more cash.
So that actually brings us to the last point of your four-point framework, which is: How do I make it last? And i’d love you to just explore that one for us. Once you've decided you're buying something that has the potential to last, how do you make it last?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah. So how we make it last comes all down to laundry. It is how often you wash and how you wash. So the first thing I would encourage people to think about is this idea that you can only wear something once before you wash it. There are certain garments where that is, of course, the case for health reasons, but many garments it's not.
And so you have to start thinking about what's an appropriate amount of time between washings for this specific garment?
If you can air items out between wearing, then you can extend the amount of time between washings. And so for jeans, that's always a great thing to do.
You know, for tops, if you're not sweating in them, that works as well. So give yourself time and encourage your kids to do the same thing. I mean, I will fully admit that more often than not, my kids are throwing their clothes directly on the floor, and I'm always like, “Hey, guys, can we pick these up and take a look?”
And so what taking a look means is, do you see visible stains? Does it smell? If either of those things are the case, then we're starting to think about washing. Sometimes for a garment, a visible stain is actually quite small, and what you need to do is spot treat. You know, get a towel with a little soap and water, see if you can get it off with just that soap and water and air it out, and then maybe you've avoided the washing machine altogether.
If it doesn't work, then you're throwing it in the wash. But I'm always encouraging my kids to hang things up and see how long we can wait until it's time to wash. That saves us energy. It saves detergent. It saves the clothes, because the more that you're washing… and water, yep. The more you're washing a garment, the more agitation, the faster it's going to fall apart.
And then when you wash, it's the classic things. Wash in cold water. All of the detergents now are formulated to do well in cold water.
There are very few reasons you need to use hot water. Non-chlorine bleach also works in cold water. And wherever possible, hang the items up to dry. And a lot of times people are like, “Oh my God, are you kidding me? Hanging it up, that's super annoying. Why would I do that?”
We lived in the Netherlands for four years where dryers are just less common and they also take a lot longer, because they're generally condensation dryers. And so it's just slower and lets off a lot of heat in the house, and so you actually don't wanna use them very often. And what we did was we bought a laundry bin that has three parts, and instead of sorting it by just colors and whites, we used one of those compartments for air dry.
And we started by putting anything that was synthetic in the air dry, because those things dry really quickly.
If you're comparing drying very slowly in a condensation dryer to air drying, it's actually faster to air dry a synthetic. It also means that the synthetics are the ones that cause the static electricity.
And so if you take all of your synthetics out, then you don't need dryer sheets, you don't need dryer balls. You just don't have all of those static issues. And so we just started with that and saw what we could do with just air drying the synthetics. And once that was a habit for us, we started to put other things in.
So then we're starting to say, oh, this is a more delicate item. This is a T-shirt that's a finer jersey. It's gonna get holes if I put it in the dryer. We'll air dry it. And the more you get used to doing that and working it into just your own way of operating, the easier it all is.
So at this point we really only machine dry towels and sheets unless we are in a rush.
Janet Kraus: So I’m going to do my best to break up with my dryer.
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, break up with your dryer.
Janet Kraus: All right. So, I want to move us to the topic of fabric.
Marianna Sachse: Well, the first thing I always encourage parents to think about is, we're gonna start with the most sensitive cases first. So if you've got a kid who has eczema or other allergies that manifest on the skin, moving to natural fibers is a must. It's one of the things that doctors will recommend very early on in the process, that we want to get your kid in more natural fibers, move them away from synthetics.
Janet Kraus: When I think natural, until recently I mostly thought cotton. What else does that include for kids?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, so I would prioritize organic cotton over cotton. Cotton is a very… I mean, it's a wonderful fiber, but in the conventional form, requires a lot of pesticides. And so from both a community perspective and an individual perspective, I would prefer to have fewer pesticides in my children's clothes.
So I lean toward organic cotton. Much smaller water footprint too. And then there are other fibers that are really wonderful like linen, which naturally uses fewer pesticides. It's a very hardy fiber coming from the flax plant. And it has a very long fiber, and so that makes it quite strong.
It also gets really, really soft as you use it, and it's quite temperature regulating. So, if you have linen sheets, those will stay cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. So they're really wonderful and versatile that way. Hemp is a great fiber as well. It can be a little bit scratchy for kids, so you need to be looking at things that are a hemp blend, where maybe it's got cotton in it as well so that it stays comfortable for children.
And then, I really like wool. I understand that for people who are vegan, it's not something that they're comfortable with. There's tons of recycled wool out there, which is a great option. There are wools that are mulesing-free. It's a technique that is used on sheep that is not particularly ethical.
And you can get wool that doesn't do that. But wool is a great fabric in general because it's warm, it's antibacterial, it's water-resistant. You really don't have to wash it most of the time. I mean, you're looking at maybe washing it once a year and the rest just like airing it out and de-linting it and things like that.
Janet Kraus: And since we're talking fabric, I'll just shout out that I just interviewed the CEO of a company called Plant Matter. She's also the CEO of a sheet company called Ettitude, and she's become a material innovator using bamboo and a very specific process on bamboo that doesn't have the same caustic breakdown process. And she's creating from this bamboo substance not only what we think of as bamboo in sheets, but also a whole series of products. So not wool, not cashmere, but using bamboo fiber.
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, there are a lot of fabrics out there that are really unexpected that are quite interesting. So one of the ones I love for formal things is cupro, which is a waste product from cotton. It's the small, fuzzy fibers that cannot be spun into the same strength as typical cotton, but can be spun into a washable silk-like product.
So sometimes when you're looking at something that is a vegan silk, if you look for cupro, that's what it is. It's this washable vegan silk that is actually a waste product from cotton. So it's very cool.
Janet Kraus: Very cool. So good. I would like to go back to something that you posted.
We talked about it, but if you could actually help break it down, because I think it would make it even more real. It is the case that oftentimes people will look at sustainable or higher quality items and say, “That's expensive.” But in fact, when you do the cost per use or the notion of keeping it longer to spend less.
Let's say I had $100. Can you walk me through how if I'm buying a pair of jeans for $100 instead of a pair of jeans for $40, the $100 is gonna take me further?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah. So one of the things that you'll see with the $100 pair of jeans is that you're more likely to find something that doesn't have a ton of elastane in it. So elastane is used to make your jeans stretchy and more comfortable. That is something that doesn't last very long. So that elastane over time will break down, and it will make the product not look good.
It's not gonna fit. And so I think many of us, particularly at the time when jeggings were a big thing, we had that experience with our skinny jeans of getting this weird wavy part on the product, and that's where the elastane was falling apart. And at that point, the product doesn't look good anymore. The product's worn out. You're not going to really be able to wear that. When you are looking at something that's 100% cotton or at least has a significantly lower percentage of elastane, 2%, 3%, then you're looking at significantly increased longevity.
And that's going to give you a much better cost per wear. You do, of course, have to factor in elements that are related to style. Is this style going to be something I want to wear over time? Are we worried that the trend on this cut is going to go out of style, and I'm going to not like it anymore?
And then, cotton is not the same across the board. If you look at any large denim company — I'm not going to name a brand because it happens with many brands.
Janet Kraus: Right.
Marianna Sachse: If you look at a brand and they're selling at Kohl's, and then they're also selling at Macy's, and then they're selling at Nordstrom, and they're selling at Neiman Marcus, every single one of those products is different.
They may look the same. They're all different.
They're using different fabric sources for each of them. They're using different manufacturers for each of them, different sewing techniques. So maybe the cut is the same, but the production is not the same. And so you are not getting a good deal when you buy the $20 pair of jeans at the discount store.
You are getting a $20 pair of jeans. You may be paying for name and label at the high-end store, but somewhere in the middle you are paying a fair price value.
And, you know, again, you mentioned jeans as a perfect example. If you're a jeans wearer, if you're someone who has a job where you can wear jeans during the day, and whether that's a job that's manual labor and you need jeans, or a job that's just flexible and you like jeans, if you're going to be wearing those every day, then it's worth it to spend on something that you are going to be happy wearing every day and get that longevity out of.
Janet Kraus: You're doing something very cool with denim that I'm really excited about. Can you tell us about breaking it in and starting again?
Marianna Sachse: Yeah, so, I mean, going back to the fabric conversation, we talked about new fibers, but the most sustainable fiber, the most sustainable fabric is one that's already been created. I love seeing this trend of people going to thrift stores and buying the tablecloth and making a cute dress out of it.
That's kind of what we're doing with this Broken In collection. We have a relationship with a sortation facility that takes B-grade denim. B-grade denim is all that denim that isn't going to be resellable at the thrift store. It's maybe got a stain, maybe it's a size that thrift stores can't sell. Maybe it's got a rip in it in an inopportune place that's not cute. And these all get sorted into B-grade denim, and most things that are B-grade end up in India. That's just kind of part of the larger fabric and clothing waste sortation system.
So we work with a partner called Bank & Vogue, and they buy this sorted clothing, and they have taken the fabric from this clothing, cut it down, cleaned it, and cut it into our products. We've worked with them to adapt our designs to work as post-consumer recycled clothes. We call this collection Broken In because adults have done the hard work of breaking in the fabric.
Oftentimes the reason kids reject denim is because it's a little stiff. It's uncomfortable. If you are buying the comfortable denim, it's generally a lot of elastane or a lot of synthetics or a lot of work to turn that into that soft product. This is all 100% cotton. We are using this cotton denim to make new kids' clothes.
I'm really excited about it, because one of the things we talk about when we talk about clothing waste is true recycling — mechanically or chemically recycling fabrics into new fabrics, and I am 100% for all of that. How many ways can we break a fabric down to make it into something new?
When we are talking about mechanical recycling, we are taking a garment, we are literally shredding it, and then spinning it into a new fiber. And what I love about this collection is that we took a whole bunch of things that aren't nice anymore, and we made them really nice.
They are so wonderful to touch. They look so adorable. You know, our existing styles, our kind of classic styles that we do are a straight leg pant with reinforcement and more of a slightly tapered leg pant that has a little bit more of a motorcycle styling reinforcement.
These translate so well to denim. And then we also did a chore coat. I have had in my collection, very early on, we had a chore coat for kids that was honestly before a lot of brands have done a chore coat for kids.
Janet Kraus: What is a chore coat?
Marianna Sachse: A chore coat usually comes from European workwear. There's workwear trends in every region, every country. American workwear, you think Carhartt. European workwear, you think chore coats. And the chore coat is kind of a car coat style with a collar, typically a very bright blue with some patch pockets on it.
When I was living in the Netherlands, I went to a street flea market that had a whole bunch of these chore coats, and I bought one, and I was like, “This is the coolest jacket ever.” Absolutely in love with it. I sent it to my very first manufacturer and was like, “We're making this as a kids' coat.” And so we produced that ages ago, and I wanted to bring it back in denim. So it's still got all of the chore coat styling with the patch pockets and the kind of slightly rounded collar.
And now it's done with two contrasting colors of denim. Elements of it are reminiscent of a varsity jacket: darker sleeves and a darker collar and a lighter body. But it's also reminiscent of the chore coat. So it's kind of a fun play on different design traditions over many, many years and multiple locations.
Janet Kraus: Very cool. Well, we will put the link to Jackalo in the show notes, and you can always get to Jackalo at the Bluedot Living Collection.
So we like to end our podcasts by asking our guest to answer a question that is from our title, Imagine If. Marianna, please feel free to answer the question Imagine If…
Marianna Sachse: So, the thing I would like to go back to, which we haven't discussed — my father was an attorney for Native Americans. He passed away a few years ago. And I, as a child, grew up spending a lot of time with Native Americans and hearing Native American traditions and histories.
I was always struck with the Iroquois way of thinking about seven generations, that when you're making decisions, you should be making decisions with seven generations of your ancestors in mind. And that's not a way of thinking that is common.
I was having a conversation with a woman in my book club, and she was in this moment of angst that many of us are in, and she was like, “I think about how many generations of my family do I have to worry about? You know, I worry about my kids. I worry about my grandkids that I'll have one day. How much do I have to think about?” And then I was like, “Seven.” We have a framework for this that we've learned from the Iroquois, which I think is really, really beautiful, that if we can imagine if we as individuals, but our government, the corporations that serve us — because corporations serve us, they're supposed to serve us — are thinking with seven generations in mind, then what can we collectively do that will preserve this blue dot, that will leave us with a better future.
And so my imagination is really around: We know these ways of thinking, and we can practice them as individuals, and we can demand, and we can ask, and we can vote so that the people that represent and serve us do the same thing. And that is a practice that is woven into everything we've been talking about.
Each one of these little decisions that we've talked about today about how we shop, who we buy from, and how we care for things are all focused on, at their root, how will this be better for seven generations down the road? And this is absolutely something I think about with Jackalo every single day.
And so one of the benefits of being a smaller company, we don't have shareholders that are pushing us to make decisions in a certain way. But I am able to say as the CEO of this company, how are each of these decisions going to impact, both from an individual product standpoint and what we're creating, but also from an example-setting standpoint.
Because you take something that's been in the news a lot lately, Everlane selling to Shein, which is really sad. But I really believe that Michael Preysman, who was the founder of that company, had a really strong vision that was very smart and had a big impact on other businesses, and had a big impact on consumer awareness.
And so whatever happens to that business as a part of a larger business that is not thinking seven generations down the road, they have had an impact that I know impacted me as a founder. It impacted me as a consumer, and I want to see more businesses out there doing that. And so as we imagine, I like to think of, what people and government and corporations can do when they think that way.
Janet Kraus: Thank you for that. That was beautiful. And thank you for reinterpreting how that situation that's happened with Everlane could be… No, it's really tough, and how it can be viewed in a way that it's had impact, and if they weren't able to finish the job that others are following in their footsteps, and maybe we can just have a little hope that the supply chains that they created, Shein might continue to have for a portion of their business.
Like, perhaps the customer will continue to demand it for them. We don't know, but we can hope. And in the meantime, those of you who were impacted by that guiding light are continuing to push forward. Maybe the second generation of this idea will be the one to serve the seventh generation.
So, thank you. I love it, too. It's been a great conversation. I wish you the best with your new launch of Broken In, and thank you for being here today.
Marianna Sachse: It was my pleasure.
Janet Kraus: My pleasure, too.
