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Imagine if the hardest part of climate action wasn't the science, it was just remembering to keep talking about it.
When London hit a record-breaking 97°F this June, Cleo Carney was there — sheltering in a flat with no air conditioning, watching a London Climate Week panel on extreme heat get canceled because it was too hot to hold it. In this episode, Victoria Riskin, Janet Kraus, and Ally Giebutowski check in with Cleo across the Atlantic, and what starts as a rundown of a brutal week turns into something bigger: a real conversation about heat domes, why the UK's political instability makes long-term climate planning so hard, and the strange irony of air conditioning as a climate “fix.”
Along the way, the hosts land on the question underneath all of it — not “Is this bad?” but “How do we keep talking about this once the heat wave ends and life goes back to normal?” From reframing dinner-party weather complaints as an opening for real conversation, to a warm detour back to Bluedot's trip to Montana's B Bar Ranch and the wolves of Yellowstone, this episode is as much about staying in the conversation as it is about the weather itself.
Meet the Hosts:
- Victoria Riskin: I am Victoria. I’m always looking for the best life has to offer despite a turbulent world. I find comfort in the environment and joy in friendships. We have a great team of all ages at Bluedot who inspire me every day as we work together to build community.
- Janet Kraus: I’m Janet, a serial start-up founder and CEO, twin-girl mom, and wife to a fun and funny guy. I am on a mission to build healthier thinking in young people, stop toxic division, spotlight hopeful climate action, and advocate for safe AI.
- Ally Giebutowski: I’m Ally, a freshman at Lafayette College. I believe that a sustainable life is a happier life and that human connection is at the heart of it all. Every day, I try to weave greener, more intentional living into every part of my life, whether that’s in the college classroom, in the kitchen, or through meaningful conversations with others.
- Cleo Carney: I am Cleo, a student at Harvard University, and I strongly believe that conversations, businesses, and the private markets can create profound change. I also love to cook nourishing food, work out in nature, and find sustainable swaps for everyday items and habits.
Transcript
Cleo Carney: I was biking through London and I thought, I'm 20. What is it gonna be like in 40 years? What is it gonna be like in 60 years? Because it's gonna be really bad if we don't do things. And normally I'm a climate optimist, but I was scared.
Victoria Riskin: Welcome back to the Bluedot podcast, Imagine If. I'm Victoria Riskin, founder of Bluedot Living, and on this podcast, we imagine if people were actually making progress on climate change, because every episode we talk to people who are helping to move the needle. Right now Cleo is in London and it's blisteringly hot, and frankly, we're worried about her. How is she doing and how is she managing? So let's beam Cleo in from London. Hi, Cleo.
Cleo Carney: Welcome from across the pond. I'll say that it's nice of you to be worried about me. Honestly, I'm worried about me and the planet a little bit, although we obviously try to be so positive and optimistic here because there's so much potential in climate action. It has been record-breaking heat for this entire past week.
It's been really interesting being here. I think this is one of the first times in my life that I've felt very tangibly that the climate was cooking. The planet was cooking, rather. Sorry. Because, you know, global warming has changed to be called climate change because it's all about different weather patterns.
It can be colder, it can be wetter. So it's not just about heating up particularly, per se. I've felt really cold storms in Canada. I've felt a lot of rain in Boston and unseasonal weather, but this is the first time where I couldn't step outside of the house, which had no air conditioning, by the way.
But even when you step outside, I was feeling very faint and like I just needed to go back inside. London was unlivable. Today's the first slightly cooler day, but it was completely unlivable.
Victoria Riskin: Wow. So how hot was it in degrees? I mean, Celsius, Fahrenheit?
Cleo Carney: So the June temperature record was broken at 36.1 degrees Celsius, which is 97 degrees Fahrenheit. And it was really quite interesting because it was London Climate Week at the same time, and I was reading an Al Jazeera story about a meeting in Central London on Wednesday, this just happened Friday, so on the 26th of June, that was titled Extreme Heat, and it was meant to be part of London Climate Action Week.
That was actually canceled because it was too hot. And so you not only had the physical effects there, but it was so ironic. And it shows the importance of the work. Basically all tubes, which is our version of the subway, were very delayed or canceled. There were over 2,600 trains delayed or canceled, and those tubes don't have air conditioning, which obviously is a Band-Aid solution to the problem because it is also not very good for the planet. But I went to Harry Styles's concert on Tuesday, which was great. It was in the big Wembley Stadium. It was obviously so hot because there were people fainting and there were so many people.
It was still full, and then you came back on the tube and everyone was really just affected. And obviously, I'm very privileged to have a place to live, and I can go buy water, I can go get ice cream. But you know, I know some of my sister's friends who live in top-floor flats that are so much hotter, and you have a fan, but the fan is just circulating hot air.
Victoria Riskin: Wow. So what do you do to try to cool yourself off? Do you, like, take cold baths, or how does that work? I mean, what are the tactics?
Cleo Carney: Isn't it so funny that we're so advanced in society, and that's part of the reason why we are at the place where we are, and then you basically just go down to the most rudimental fundamentals. So I would have ice packs on me. I basically just lay in bed. If you put a bowl of ice water in front of the fan, it gives cooler air. If I could make it to a store, I'd find a store with air conditioning and just sort of breathe and relax. I got a handheld fan.
Victoria Riskin: I don't know if you ever read The Ministry for the Future. Did you hear about that book?
Cleo Carney: No, but I should.
Victoria Riskin: It's about the future when the planet is sort of burning, and how people are trying to survive in a very poor part of India. I don't know if the whole book is about that. I haven't finished reading it, but there are these scenes where people are just doing whatever they can to find some shade, just any kind of shade, and there's not enough water. They're running out of water.
Which is all very catastrophic to imagine. But I'm surprised there isn't more air conditioning in London. I guess it's always been a town that has had a lot of clouds, and we always think of rainy London, right? And then a little bit more gloomy and then some beautiful days. So air conditioning is not a thing there. Is that right?
Cleo Carney: No. So not really. It has — I mean, some bigger department stores in some places do have it. I was reading a little bit up on this because we're starting to adapt and evolve, but much of Europe, it's not as much of a thing. However, I will say in the hotter places, traditionally hot, like if you go to Italy, it's not ubiquitous, but it is there because they're used to being hotter.
But I was reading up about the temperature changes in the UK, and in 1976, there were 15 days above 90 degrees Fahrenheit, 32 degrees Celsius, and this was a big famous heatwave. And now that's just not that unusual in the UK. Every summer or so we seem to have a spell of this, but it's so dangerous because we're not currently climate retrofitted.
There was a big heatwave in 2022, which I was here for as well, and it caused 3,000 heat-related deaths according to government figures, and that was mostly in people over 65 because the care homes mostly don't have air conditioning.
Kids can kind of survive that, although our mayor just said we do need to get air conditioning in schools, which I agree with. But in nursing and residential homes, they just can't take that type of heat. It's a really big stress on the body. But the final thing I'll say quickly, and I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on this and your experiences in any places you've been with extreme heat, is I met up with Sage, who is part of the Bluedot Collective, last week, and she was here for, among many other great climate things, London Climate Week, and she said she'd been speaking to people in the government and people who were decision-makers, and she was saying, “Well, what are you gonna do about this?” Because it was her first time in London, and she was so shocked by the heat and lack of AC, and they said, “Oh, we don't really have a plan. We're just gonna kind of…” You know.
Victoria Riskin: So Cleo's talking about Sage Lanier, who is just a firecracker of a communicator. And when she was at Berkeley, she offered a course in climate change, because students can put together a course and offer it, and I think she had 1,300 students who attended her class. It was just a blowout.
She's a real little powerhouse, and one of the things that I love about her is that she sometimes likes to focus on the positive economics of climate change, the things that actually can make a difference and can be economically remunerative and save the planet. So, her question is quite right. What are you people in London doing? Not you, Cleo, but what are the people of London doing about this kind of thing? Because it's not gonna be just this one year. It's not gonna be an isolated case.
Cleo Carney: I think people are starting to realize that they do need more air conditioning particularly because actually at this point, people are being discouraged from going out even to an ice cream store because it requires you to leave your house, and it's so taxing walking. I saw stories about that.
But I think part of the language around this is relatively harmful. I do feel that when I'm in Europe, the language around climate things is a lot more around climate change rather than happenstance. But I think calling them heat waves rather than climate emergencies or something like it makes it seem like more, “OK, you know, every summer we have our heat wave. It gets hot. It's really unbearable, but then we come back.” You know, about three weeks ago it was in the 60s, 70s, and raining and cold, and now you can't leave your house.
Janet Kraus: We experienced this same kind of thing out West. And then it's the idea that it's subtle, right? What happens all the time is things called heat domes, which is when a particular, like, it's like a lid on a pot and it stalls and it's stuck over an area.
And so those things are natural. Like, those have happened forever over time. But the problem is that when the base temperature has risen, right? Before that heat dome would've been trapped in and it would've been 85, but now it's trapping in and it's 98. And so there's this subtle scientific distinction between the thing that comes and goes and the thing that is ever-rising underneath.
And so they're not wrong that it's a heat wave, but the pot has been boiling for the last 10 years, making that underlying temperature so much higher.
Victoria Riskin: Wow. Well, I remember last, Ally will remember this, when we were at MIT two years ago doing our program, our Bluedot Living Institute student leadership program, staying in a beautiful old dormitory that had no air conditioning, and it was 90 degrees. And I said, “I'm never taking young people here again,” because I don't know how you got through it. But you were all great. You were great troopers, but you shouldn't have to go through life being great troopers, right?
Ally Giebutowski: What I do remember about the experience, it actually made us all leave our specific rooms and all congregate in the common area more because our rooms would circulate with so much heat, and the common area was actually cooler than our own rooms. So actually that was a positive.
However, in general, I would not wish that for any college student who's spending a lot of time, you know, their first year getting to school, they don't have AC. That would be very hard for any kid going through transition and having that on top of everything.
Victoria Riskin: The irony is that MIT is at the cutting edge of a lot of climate solutions, but they can't get air conditioning into the dorm. It's a beautiful old building. I also had an experience this week of reading about a woman I know, not very well, but I had met her and been a guest at her home.
And she and her husband were driving in Oregon, and they… This is gonna be hard to hear. And they pulled over to the side of the road, and they were found dead. They died, I think, from the heat. They had the air conditioning on full blast. They didn't have any water in the car. There was no evidence of foul play.
Now, you know, of course my mind, and perhaps incorrectly, jumps to they died of the heat, because it was blisteringly hot there as well. But it felt like a casualty of the heating, dehydration, and they were about 100 miles away from their destination. I think they were going to the Shakespeare Festival up there.
These little, these are little markers. These are marker moments for us that we may have to learn how to cope and adapt. I mean, there are lots of things we can do to maybe have a more positive impact on the changing climate due to the carbon emissions and all the things that we work hard to do, whether it's to have an electric vehicle or switch to electric or support good companies like we're trying to do.
But we also have to learn how to cope with what may be the reality going forward. And as Cleo said, you know, it's a lot easier for us because we live in a comfortable place, and they have air conditioning. I just don't, can't even imagine not having it. It costs money to be able to run it even.
So the adaptation… Now, in some communities, people are planting lots of trees.
Janet Kraus: Yeah, I know. I was thinking about your point about AC, it's expensive to run. And the irony is, right, that unless it's powered electrically and unless the freon that is used, unless that is tackled well, right? That makes it also worse.
So that's a complexity. So I like where you're going because we have to get to, in all of these things, we have to get to the root. Which is like AC is a way to stay alive, but it doesn't actually get to the root.
Ally Giebutowski: There's only so much climate mitigation you can do.
Janet Kraus: Right. And so the idea, I mean, trees is incredibly powerful. Like we all know, a bunch of little things have to happen. I know of several projects that are happening in cities around, you know, tree replanting because that's a more sustainable way to absorb the carbon and also to absorb the heat and also to provide shade. So whenever I see any of those projects under way, it won't do it by itself, but it certainly is a good contribution or contributing factor.
Victoria Riskin: I imagine, Cleo, for folks in England, it's a very tough economic time in England. So when you talk to the mayor and say, or Sage does, “What are you doing about this?” The answer is, “We don't have a lot of money sitting around because of…” And you've had seven prime ministers in, I don't know, one a year.
Cleo Carney: Yeah, I think it's a really difficult situation because the U.K. is in a not ideal fiscal state and, I think I'd say, political volatility in that we keep on voting in and pushing out new prime ministers, so you don't have the stability of a long-term-minded plan that we know we need for climate action.
And when you guys were talking about AC, and when I was ranting about it as well, it's one of those things where, Vicki, you have air conditioning and it could be really hot outside, but you could be really cool and comfortable inside. And it is one of those things where obviously you don't want anyone to be unwell because of the heat. I was partially unwell because of the heat. You don't want people dying, as I said, people were. But I think there's something important actually, and I do say this heavily caveated, but with feeling the discomfort. Like when I felt the discomfort and there was no refuge, it was just miserable all the time.
And that was really when I felt kind of, oh my gosh, I was biking through London and I thought, I'm 20. What is it gonna be like in 40 years? What is it gonna be like in 60 years? Because it's gonna be really bad if we don't do things. And normally I'm a climate optimist, but I was scared.
And so I think there's something to be said about that. But then coming back to Janet's point about we know it's little things, this is gonna be, what? A one- to two-week stretch of being really, really intensely miserable, and then the weather's gonna continue to change in different ways. I don't know how it's gonna change necessarily in the U.K. or anywhere.
But we suffer through this heatwave. I'm sure there are a lot of people sitting around thinking, “Ooh, this is really bad. This is really bad. Climate change is really bad.” And then you get through it and you're like, “Oh, OK. I'm gonna go back to life as is.” And so just because it feels like such a big issue, it's not as though you can just, you know, flip a switch and, OK, I can live this minimal life and I can see the immediate impact, and it's this collective action thing. So I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on how to talk about these things with your peers, because, I mean, the Brits love to talk about weather. At the events I've been to recently, dinner parties and things, everyone complains. But I feel like when people are complaining about horrible weather, whether it's super hot, super rainy, super cold, whatever it is, that's a really good area to gently and non-judgmentally introduce the idea of, ooh, this might be climate-related.
How can we, not politically, just know this fact, science, how can we then move your daily habits to all help together? If you know what I mean.
Victoria Riskin: What you're touching on is on one hand, it's quite an overwhelming topic. So it's much easier just not to think about it or to explain it away as it just happens to be a heatwave in London. We just happen to have wildfires going on here, there, and everywhere. You know, those kinds of things.
Cleo Carney: Yeah, Canada's really been touched by the fires.
Victoria Riskin: Yeah. And so I think there is, there's hope in talking about it.
Janet Kraus: You know what I'd love? I would love, as we put this out for our listeners, I just think this is a moment that is ripe for asking people for thoughts and ideas. Like if our listeners have thoughts and ideas, or things that they're seeing in their towns that are working to… I think what you're really talking about, Cleo, is how do you maintain the continued conversation about it and not let it be only in the two weeks when it's happening?
Like how not to forget and how to continue. Maybe it's even about, I'm brainstorming about living here with you guys, like it's about how every time the weather is different at an extreme that we can… Not an extreme so that it's an event, necessarily, but that it's out of character, that it's more than it should be, that it's too volatile or whatever.
Just continuing to connect the dots, Bluedot. Here's another example. We need to be paying attention to the thread between these. Because as Ally was saying, we ourselves haven't lived through a specific climate event that's so massive, and that's what's worse, is if it's massive, your brain goes, “Ah, do something.”
But if it's just subtle but worse. Right? When we look at Boston and we see the, you know, the roads flooding in ways that they didn't flood 10 years ago, or when it goes from being 30 degrees to 85 degrees to 30 degrees. Like yeah, it can be 30 in March and it can be 80 in March, but not next to each other by a day. We have to just keep saying, “This is not right. This is not normal. This is outside.
Ally Giebutowski: Like when we were in Montana, and Vicki was there as well, we were driving along the roads, and our guide who led us on the wolf tours, he was so incredible, talked about how there was a flood back in 2023, I think it was. And you know, it took houses completely down, and people had to change their route to get to work, to school, and it was a really big moment for everyone. And someone asked, “So do you think the conversation has shifted?”
And he responded really in a very witty way. He said, “You would think so. You would hope. You would wish.” And that moment was slightly discouraging.
Victoria Riskin: But realistic.
Ally Giebutowski: Yeah. And in a discouraging moment, there's also that window for what can I do about it? How can I help move those conversations to be forward-thinking?
Because, I mean, there's a saying, “Misery loves company,” and people so often go to the negative and just kind of build on it, but no one wants to feel miserable in their conversations. They just don't realize it until someone comes in and is the light and says something, and then the conversation shifts.
Victoria Riskin: Well, and also I think, Ally, the underlying thought is, “I know it's bad. What can I do? I can't do anything. It's hopeless.” You know, there's a kind of resignation, so I just have to move on. I don't wanna dwell on the negative. I just wanna intercede here to say that we missed you, Cleo. We took a Bluedot Living trip to a wonderful ranch together in Montana. It was five fantastic days in a ranch called B Bar Ranch, and we went very early in the morning to see the wolves that have been reinstated in Yellowstone.
Cleo Carney: Oh, great.
Victoria Riskin: And brought back the natural biodiversity ecosystem.
Cleo Carney: We did a case study on that in my environmental science class.
Victoria Riskin: Oh, you did? Well, we met the dude who did the project, and he… It was wonderful because he's almost like a movie star.
Janet Kraus: Central casting, Cleo.
Ally Giebutowski: You should see the mustache.
Victoria Riskin: He has this great mustache. People pulled off the side of the road and said, “Are you Doug Smith?”
Janet Kraus: That's how well-known he is.
Victoria Riskin: That's how well-known he is. But we did see the wolves and we saw beautiful bird life, which goes to the next thing I would say, to take us out of the doldrums here perhaps, that to be in a beautiful place in nature, you just wanna fiercely protect the planet.
You know what it is you're fighting for. You're not fighting for all the buildings in your community. They're nice. You want them to be there. But when you see how exquisite nature is, you think anybody who's half normal would wanna fight to protect this beautiful environment. So next year if we go, we have to plan it so that you can go, Cleo, because we wanna go back. We just loved it.
Cleo Carney: Yeah. So I think what I got from that and what I got from this conversation so far is unfortunately we are gonna have to live through these things. But when you have conversations complaining about it, as I just did for the first 10 minutes of this, then that's also an opportunity for you to, whoever you're in conversation with, to gently shift the narrative toward, “OK, so what can we do in our small habits?”
You know, it sounds boring, it sounds simple, it is, and we can do it. But to continue to move the needle so that for our kids, for our future, it doesn't continue to get worse. Because if it's happening now, you know, we only know what can happen. And trips to beautiful ranches in Montana and anywhere where you're surrounded by great nature and taken out of cities where sometimes you forget how wonderful nature is, can really remind you just how important it is to protect it.That's my take.
Ally Giebutowski: I wanna intercede for a second, too, to think about having these conversations and talking with people my age and our age, Cleo. I just wanna push the narrative that sometimes conversations about climate change and environmental issues to people in my generation, I don't know what it is, but sometimes people find it like annoying or like, “Ugh,” like you're being dramatic, or like, “Let's not talk about that.”
I'm sure it's out of fear. I would like to push the narrative to get through the uncomfortable part of the conversation, because 20 years from now, we're gonna be looking back and being like, “Why was I embarrassed to talk about this? Like, look where we are now.” Embarrassment, we're so past feeling embarrassed about talking about something that is going to really uproot all of our lives.
Victoria Riskin: Well, see myself—yeah.
Ally Giebutowski: To be completely honest with myself, you know, sometimes I think, “Ooh. I don't wanna talk about that.” Like it's uncomfortable. I'm gonna be uncomfortable when like—it's—you know, even with AC,
Janet Kraus: Like 115 degrees every day.
Ally Giebutowski: My house is crumbling from the heat.
Janet Kraus: It's a really great way to think about it. Like the little uncomfortableness that it is today is far less than the true uncomfortableness it will be if we don't.
Ally Giebutowski: And embarrassment is just so relevant.
Janet Kraus: Embarrassment is very relevant. That's relative. And Vicki, it makes me actually think of Cleo's original point, which is maybe we can even think at Bluedot about how we…because we're not about the negative, we're not about the fear, but maybe we can even think about how we connect the dots a little bit more.
Like this is the effect of climate change, and this is what you can do. So actually show some — not scary, but like honest pictures of what it's — how we see it, how it's evident today, and then a series of things you can do. We incorporate it so that the person who puts it out of their mind goes, “No, wait. Hold on. I'm connecting the dots.” Because, you know, not everybody lives in this world like we do.
Victoria Riskin: Mm-hmm. Well, I do miss you guys and can't wait for us to be together. And this has been a wonderful conversation. Cleo, take care of yourself. Enjoy, and enjoy your ice cream, and let's say hold a very good thought for the people of London because they're wonderful people and they're just…
Cleo Carney: And all around Europe. Paris as well. My sister lives in a top-floor apartment. She says 45 degrees Celsius.
Janet Kraus: Wow.
Victoria Riskin: Wow.
Cleo Carney: She was probably being a bit exaggerated, a bit dramatic, but it definitely was hot, so. But yes, thank you, Vicki, and all the best, guys. It is nice to see you in chat.
Ally Giebutowski: So nice to see you guys. Love.
Victoria Riskin: Right, you guys take care.
Cleo Carney: Bye.
Victoria Riskin: Ciao.
