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Available on Apple and Spotify.
Imagine if your underwear wasn’t made with plastic … because right now, it probably is.
In this episode, co-hosts Janet Kraus and Cleo Carney sit down with Stacy Grace, founder and CEO of Kent, a company that produces 100% plant-based, compostable underwear.
Stacy had her “a-ha” moment while studying fashion sustainability in London and grappling with her own infertility issues. Now, using her learned and lived experience, she's on a mission to transform the garments that are closest to our bodies. Listen to the conversation that gave our co-host her own a-ha-moment: “Our most intimate choices are also our most global ones,” Janet says. “The ‘plastic panties' problem was a total wake-up call that our bodies are the first environment we have to protect.”
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Why synthetic underwear is a health risk
- How Kent makes truly compostable underwear
- What the supply chain challenges of going 100% natural are
- Why price reflects fair-trade factories and organic materials
- Customer stories from chemotherapy patients and breastfeeding moms
- Easy swaps: Huck rags, silicon bags, reusable coffee cups
Meet Stacy Grace
Stacy Grace is a prominent figure in the sustainable fashion movement, recognized for her ability to bridge the gap between high-level business strategy and radical environmental innovation. As the founder of Kent, she has pioneered the world’s first verified compostable and carbon-sequestering underwear.
Meet the Hosts:
- Janet Kraus: I’m Janet, a serial start-up founder and CEO, twin-girl mom, and wife to a fun and funny guy. I am on a mission to build healthier thinking in young people, stop toxic division, spotlight hopeful climate action, and advocate for safe AI.
- Cleo Carney: I am Cleo, a student at Harvard University, and I strongly believe that conversations, businesses, and the private markets can create profound change. I also love to cook nourishing food, work out in nature, and find sustainable swaps for everyday items and habits.
Transcript
Janet Kraus: We know these days plastic bottles are bad. We know pesticides are bad. We even know that parabens in our makeup are bad, but I don't know about you — how often have you thought about the problem of your underwear?
Cleo Carney: Actually, I have thought quite a lot about my underwear. It's not what most 19-year-olds would say, but I know all those things that you said were bad, and a couple of years ago, I thought, “Well, what is my clothing?” I’ve thought a lot about how fashion impacts the planet, but I also wrote an article for Bluedot three years ago where I looked through all the information about the terrifying things in your clothes. I am really excited to speak to someone who's trying to fix the problem.
Janet Kraus: Awesome. I didn't even know that! That is so cool. We're going to have to link to that article. But I'm just going to tell our listeners: Here's the deal. About half of all underwear is made with synthetic fibers, which basically means you are wearing plastic panties. There are fossil fuels in your underwear drawer and you didn't even know it. And the rest of them, those that are made of cotton, are probably also pretty horrible either because of harsh dyes, because they're blended with synthetics, or because they were made with serious pesticides. So even the cotton underwear you have is probably not a spa day for your body.
Cleo, you and I, to help women understand the danger lurking in their underwear drawer, have the opportunity to bring on today Stacy Grace, who is the founder and CEO of Kent. I can't wait to find out why the company is named Kent. She is building a company all around soft, breathable, plant-based underwear designed for a healthier body and to be lighter on the planet. Welcome, Stacy.
Stacy Grace: Thank you so much. Amazing to be here.
Janet Kraus: So exciting. We always start when we're talking to founders with that “a-ha” moment. Can you take us back to the moment when you first said, “Oh gosh, I need something better on my butt than what's available”? And not only the moment when you realized you did, but why were you even thinking that you did?
Stacy Grace: Sure. I would say it was building up to an inflection point for me. The main time where I realized and questioned what was in my underwear was when I was studying in London doing a master's in fashion marketing back in 2009. Sustainability in fashion was just starting to bubble up, and people were starting to think about the impact of clothing on the planet.
I noticed two things: a lot of apparel brands were questioning things, but not a lot of underwear brands were. Also, even the sustainable fashion brands were still using synthetic fibers like nylon, polyester, and elastin. I interned for a more responsible luxury underwear brand at the time that was making organic silk underwear and loungewear. It really made me think, “Well, what is my everyday underwear made of?” I took a look: elastin, polyester, spandex, everything.
I focused my thesis on how we could transform this category to be more responsible. Originally, I was looking at it through the lens of the environment, which is notoriously where sustainability starts. Then I thought to myself, I remember my mom when I was younger saying, “Don't spend all day in your swimsuit. It's not good for your body; it's going to trap bacteria and heat.” This was in the summertime in Canada. I looked at my bathing suit and realized it was made of all synthetics. If our underwear is made with the same material as our bathing suits, and we shouldn't be wearing our bathing suits all day, why is this happening?
It was a culmination of things that really bubbled to the surface when I was spending time in the U.K. When I moved to L.A. after London, I thought, “OK, now's the time to bring this idea to life, and I think that I can actually make it happen.” I was fed up with the options. Nothing was really offering itself as a solution, so I wanted to do something about it.
Cleo Carney: That is a really interesting story. Silk underwear sounds great, but doesn't seem like an everyday thing, at least for most people; it's not the most accessible. Can you share with us some concrete ideas? What are your must-haves and must-not-haves when creating a Kent product? And what is good to look for to avoid?
Stacy Grace: Yes. For our must-haves, we made a commitment from day one to be 100% natural. Everything from our fabrics to the elastics and threads has to be 100% natural and plant-based. It should be not only great for your body but also have a compostable afterlife.
Janet Kraus: Does that really mean you could plant it and it would just disintegrate? Is that what you mean by compostable?
Stacy Grace: Yes! We say “Plant your pants” is our motto. It’s a fun way to think about it. There is a misconception that it will biodegrade on your body. It will stand the test of time and work, wash, and wear like a great pair of underwear. It's only when its time is up that you need to pop it in the compost. In an active compost setting, it will break down like a typical “brown” — like dead leaves or yard trimmings — and it will turn into nutrient-rich soil.
So, 100% natural is our bare minimum. We also look for additional ways to amp up our natural materials. We're testing a seaweed fabric right now and different dyes all the time. For us, it's an evolution, but being 0% synthetic from day one is our guiding mandate.
Janet Kraus: That is incredible. What I didn't share at the beginning is that I started and ran a fashion brand called Peach. It was athleisure and we sold underwear. Right around 2019, we started to try to “green” the supply chain, which is really hard when you're making leggings. How do you actually make something that is stretchy and returns? We didn't actually get there; we sold the company before we could go down that path. We'll talk about the supply chain later and how you must have really had to work to get that right, but could you help us understand how you make the stretch work in the trimmings and the waistband?
Stacy Grace: It's a couple of things. One is the specific type of cotton that we've selected: Supima cotton. It's an extra-long staple, which means it has great natural bounce and recovery. It's also amazingly silky smooth, unlike typical short-staple cotton that can feel scratchy and might not have as much stretch. In terms of our elastic, it's a cotton and plant-based blend. We use a tree rubber and a cotton blend in our elastics that are 100% natural.
It's a continual evolution in terms of finding the right density and stretch without being too stiff. This is something we're always refining, especially with our bra straps. We're releasing the next evolution of our triangle bra, which has adjustable sliders and an adjustable strap. Finding the right softness in an elastic matters.
Cleo Carney: It matters! It will make or break your day.
Stacy Grace: Exactly. So yes, it's definitely an evolution, but we're excited to continue testing.
Janet Kraus: How deeply into working with your suppliers are you? I can't even imagine some of those things existed when you first went out to market. Were they there?
Stacy Grace: For our very first supply chain setup, I took a strange approach where I was in the weeds with ordering our thread, our elastics, and the fabric, bringing it all together for a factory. Typically, a fashion brand will just tell a factory, “I want to make this product,” and the factory handles ordering everything. Because I was so in the trenches, I took a lot of time sourcing, testing, and finding suppliers I could trust who would also work with me to develop new solutions. Some of it did exist, but I had to find it.
Janet Kraus: You had to go in, pick it, feel it, and experience it. I can relate. We tried to make a pair of leggings with recycled nylon. I read the fine print on the fabric ingredients, and I saw “pre-consumer waste.” I went back and asked what that was. They were chopping up bottles before they had been used so they could market them as recycled nylon. That’s why you have to be there, right?
Stacy Grace: You literally need to get into the weeds. It's so important that the team is involved in understanding exactly the components, not even just on the surface level of cotton versus bamboo versus nylon. It's really understanding the source and the nuances with every material choice.
Cleo Carney: Absolutely. I'm sure you hear this often: Higher premium products where people put in effort to source better ingredients are typically slightly pricier. For someone listening, why does it matter? How important is it to our health and the health of the planet that we stop wearing synthetic underwear? And would your answer differ across age groups?
Stacy Grace: I love this question. There is a mindset shift happening. Exposure to plastics has typically been viewed as an environmental issue, but now we're seeing studies show that it is a human health and wellness issue as well. I've been waiting for these studies to come out. Especially in the last couple of weeks, the new documentary The Plastic Detox came out, which shines a spotlight on our exposure to synthetic materials. It brought all the pieces together to say, “OK, this is a significant issue.”
Underwear is next to your body all day long. When you move, you create friction and generate heat. Your pores open up and your skin absorbs what's sitting next to it. Studies from two or three years ago showed that some leading sports bra brands and socks had BPAs in them.
Cleo Carney: Way above the threshold that was safe, if there even is a safe threshold.
Stacy Grace: Exactly. I'm currently breastfeeding my nine-month-old baby girl, and even that has made me think about what I am exposing myself to. When you consider breast tissue and private areas for both men and women, those areas are way more permeable than other areas of your body. The studies showing the absorption levels when you're exposed to synthetics are revealing negative impacts.
That documentary resonated with me because my husband and I were trying for our first son and had unexplained infertility. We couldn't figure out what was going on. At the time, the only thing his doctor said was, “Jeff, I think you should switch to all-natural boxers.”
Janet Kraus: Interesting! Even back then.
Stacy Grace: Yeah, this was four or five years ago. We couldn't find a solution that he felt comfortable in, so we made our “Breather Brief” and two kids later! I’m not saying that was the only solution, but I think there's enough data now to connect the dots. Whether you are young or older, I don't think it's an age thing.
Cleo Carney: I mean, why not minimize your exposure?
Stacy Grace: Exactly. If you have a body and you want to take care of it, this is one of the ways you can do it.
Janet Kraus: I feel like there are these movies that change the zeitgeist, and I think The Plastic Detox is one of them. We actually were lucky enough to interview the director, so check out that podcast episode. This is a moment where people are realizing this isn't just a planetary thing, it's a human health thing. What's healthy for us is healthy for the planet. Because it's fossil fuel-driven, it impacts the climate and temperature as well. It's a very connected system.
Our founder, Vicky, is going through her kitchen right now and replacing every single thing.
Victoria Riskin: As you know, I saw this movie and it completely impressed me. So, I'm going to do a five-day series called “Cleanse My Kitchen.” We're going to start here. I'm going to remove plastic wrap and swap it out with beeswax. Plastic bags? They're so bad for you. I'll get some nice glass containers and replace plastic lids with silicone lids. Follow me!
Janet Kraus: I think our next series should have her do her bedroom, her sheets and her underwear drawer.
Cleo Carney: It's terrifying seeing how prevalent they are, but you can make a change. You're in control of what you decide to do to look after your body. But I can imagine founding a startup is really hard, particularly in a place that's off the beaten path. Have there been any moments in your journey where the challenge was so big you thought about shutting it down? Tell us about the lows.
Stacy Grace: One big low was at the very beginning. I was talking in L.A. to another founder of an underwear brand and telling her about my idea. At the time, I really wanted to produce it in Los Angeles because I wanted to be there, boots on the ground, to understand how everything was made, from soup to nuts. She told me, “This is not going to happen. You can't do it. You need synthetics, and you can't do it in L.A.” I really took a step back and wondered if I could actually do this. A seasoned veteran in the lingerie category feels like it's impossible, that's tough. But it worked out!
Janet Kraus: I love that story because veterans often think that because they’ve had challenges doing it the “regular” way, so it must be impossible to do it another way. To think you could literally do something 180 degrees. Another way you know, you're setting a whole different set of expectations, right? They have a set of expectations for how the product works, that yours is gonna work differently, and you're willing and open to all of the ways in which it might be willing to change. And the stakes are lower too, in a weird way, for you than for an established brand. I love that you just held your resolve and was like, oh, really? It's impossible. I'll show you. It's possible.
Stacy Grace: I always think there's a solution no matter what. It will take time and you might have to take detours or experiment more, but after years of doing this, I know there's always a solution, it just might not be what you expect. It's about sticking to it and believing in your original vision.
Cleo Carney: I looked through your website and wanted to buy everything, but I noticed some items are out of stock in different sizes. Have you had trouble keeping up with the demand?
Stacy Grace: Yes. Being bootstrapped, it's sometimes difficult for us to keep everything in stock. It's a balancing act of how much we order. We don't want to be too overstocked because our cash flow is slightly constrained since we are completely self-funded. Our priority is keeping our core colors — black, white, and heather gray — in stock. We test seasonal colors to see if any of those should graduate to the core line.
Cleo Carney: It is flattering to have more people want your product than you can provide at one given time.
Janet Kraus: One of the early lessons entrepreneurs realize is that you can fail while growing because you don't have the capital to fuel the engine. I'm curious — a nice pair of underwear by itself is expensive, and you're making a super natural, high-quality product. Do you see a world where the price could come down as demand grows, or is this the long-run price point? For some, it's not an accessible price point yet. So I'm just curious about what you see in the future.
Stacy Grace: Right now, we offer discounts on bulk bundles to offer some level of accessibility. If you're buying three, five, or seven, there are graduated savings. I know there's been conditioning in the market where you can go to the mall and buy “five for $25.” If we grow to a certain scale, our price point could come down slightly, but I don't think it will come down dramatically. We chose to go the route of certified organic fabrics and a Fair Trade Certified factory, and those come with higher price points. We've decided to invest in that because we're not cutting corners.
Cleo Carney: Also, in the U.S., healthcare is not free. If you think about the long-term trade-offs, it's preventative.
Janet Kraus: Exactly. My husband and I had fertility issues, too, and the documentary noted that by 2040, the majority of people might have to do in vitro if infertility continues at this pace. It's an investment in our health. Buy better, buy less. You don't need 27 pairs of underwear. When I heard “Supernatural Kent,” I thought of Clark Kent. Is there a connection there? Where did the name Kent come from?
Stacy Grace: You're right! When I was thinking about the name, we started with women's wear, but I wanted something that didn't feel overly feminine or sexualized. I wanted something strong and gender-fluid because eventually we would have men's products. My favorite superhero is Superman. Clark Kent is his alter ego. He’s the only superhero who takes something off to become his super self. Everyone else puts something on. It’s connected to this idea of a base layer and everyone having a part in saving the planet. “Supernatural basics” has that connotation, and everything has a compostable afterlife.
Cleo Carney: That's an empowering name. Could you give our listeners some empowering ways they can make changes in their life to live a healthier, more sustainable life, because I'm sure a lot of people listening to the statue didn't know all of the issues that were hiding in their underwear and their clothing, and so any advice you have would be great.
Stacy Grace: A couple of easy swaps: We've switched from paper towels to using “huck rags.” You can use old cut-up T-shirts or rags specifically made for this.
Janet Kraus: I did that! It's so awesome.
Stacy Grace: It's so easy and it's a waste killer. Also, getting rid of Ziploc bags. Replacing those with a reusable silicone alternative is great.
Cleo Carney: I have some and they are much more durable.
Stacy Grace: Exactly. Nothing should be “one and done.” What are you using once when you should be using it multiple times? The last one is a coffee cup. Takeaway cups are lined with synthetics that release microplastics. Having a beautiful reusable coffee cup or glass bottle makes me want to use it more. Finding joy in the design of those products is part of the fun.
Janet Kraus: I love that. You mentioned experimenting with seaweed, and both Cleo and I love kelp. We think kelp can solve everything! And we just had an interview with a gentleman who started a company called Notpla, not plastic, and he is making takeaway cups with seaweed for companies to be able to use for takeaway. because takeaway will still exist. And to be able to have packaging that you can then plant or, actually, I think his line is you can eat it. So, you can finish, drink it. But thank you for those swaps. Those are inspiring. And I do think when we make these swaps, if we consider them, like you just said in the last one, there's joy in taking a moment to be intentional and make a choice that you know is gonna have multiple impacts, ripple effects of your choice. So, actually, it's making me think I'm gonna start. Make that a housewarming gift in a way that I hadn’t thought about before. So a question that I wanted to ask you: Is there a story of a customer that you've had that just really confirmed that what you're doing is like, you know, just lit you up. You like to read it and you were like, oh my God, that's why we're here.
Stacy Grace: I would say there's a couple that are very similar. I was lucky enough to receive emails from them. And I always love getting emails from customers because I love knowing who's using our products, why do they love them, and what are they looking for that is not on the market.
And I would say there's two kinds of scenarios that stand out. One was a story of a mom who was looking for underwear and garments for her daughter who is going through chemotherapy. And this has actually been a recurring group of customers that are looking for all natural alternatives for someone going through treatment.
And that just really made me want to double down on what we're doing because I think if we can help serve people who are going through the most challenging time in their life and provide something that is healthy for them as they are trying to kind of regain their health, then it's making me feel like, OK, we're doing something important if we can help people during this time.
And then I've also heard from a group of moms who are in my situation, breastfeeding and can't find a nursing bra that is synthetic-free. And I'm in the same boat, and so I've made it my mission to make that our next product.
Janet Kraus: That’s very powerful. I mean it’s so simple.
Stacy Grace: I don't want my daughter or myself to be exposed when we're doing something so natural. I love hearing these stories about a real need we can potentially help solve.
Janet Kraus: That's inspiring. Cleo and I can't wait to get our “super powerful” underwear and share our experience. I'm so glad you're pursuing it. I think it's an incredibly important part of the entire shift that we're all making. You know, it's something as literally basic and every day and close to our bodies as this product. It's amazing. I'm so happy, so thank you. Could you then, as we come to the close here, could you share, you know, I think in these times, we have these podcasts so that people can feel hopeful that action is happening. That's shape-shifting our world, and we need optimism, hope, and belief. And so we like to end our podcast, which is called Imagine If, by asking our guest to take us away as you imagine what the world could be like. So, imagine if, Stacy…
Stacy Grace: I would say, imagine if everyone had a garden. A garden is such a beautiful thing to tend to and grow, whether it's vegetables, fruits, or flowers. It brings joy into your life to see something grow that you've worked on. Big or small, even an herb garden on a shelf, the act of growing something helps us slow down, return to Earth, and bring something healthy into our daily lives. I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Janet Kraus: Oh, I love that. It just snowed here in April and I was thinking about my garden, but I'll have to wait a couple more weeks! Thank you, Stacy.
Cleo Carney: Thank you so much for your time! Even though I wrote that article, I'm still concerned I have synthetic things in my drawer. I’m going to go through it today and turn them into wash rags.
Janet Kraus: Thank you so much, Stacy. We are so excited to see where Kent goes.
Stacy Grace: Thank you! I loved chatting with you both.
Victoria Riskin: Thank you for joining us on Imagine If from Bluedot Living. If you want to explore our recipes, products for your home and lifestyle, and read interesting stories, you can find us at bluedotliving.com. And for daily inspiration, you can follow us at Bluedot Living on Instagram. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it and please add your thoughts in the comments on YouTube. I’m Victoria Riskin, and we’ll be back next week with more stories from great people doing amazing things in their little corner of the planet.
